31 May
2006
31 May
'06
2:21 p.m.
Hi all,
I'm thinking about buying a thinkpad, and was wondering how I may buy one
without any m$ product preloaded or included ?
I tried to contact lenovo Belgium, but without much success.
Thanks for any hints/tips :-)
--
regards,
Georges Toth
31 May
31 May
2:52 p.m.
Hi Georges,
On Wed, May 31, 2006 at 04:21:31PM +0200, Georges Toth wrote:
I'm thinking about buying a thinkpad, and was
wondering how I may buy one
without any m$ product preloaded or included ?
I tried to contact lenovo Belgium, but without much success.
Ouch, that's going to be hard.
A couple of years ago, I spoke to IBM people about this,
essentially they are bound by some sort of contract (which
may or may not be illegal) with MS to sell only with MS
licenses (ok, that was before the Lenovo deal).
You might try to get a refund from MS, but that may be
hard and tedious.
The other variant is to go the very hard but principled
way, i.e. as Brent did: sue them for illegal bundling (they
don't even detail how much the OS costs in the package).
Alternatives:
- pay the MS tax
- accept to buy different hardware (option: tell IBM/Lenovo
why they lost a sale) Some vendors sell without OS at all,
some do even provide some distribution of Linux.
- raise enough of a stink with IBM/Lenovo or one of their
resellers, maybe they'll accept providing you with an
"unbundled" Thinkpad. Don't count on it being any cheaper
though.
Greetings, Eric
3:11 p.m.
Hi Eric,
In the meantime I mailed IBM/US and the lenovo representatives here in
Luxembourg (Hesper apparently).
I found the email address for the company in Hesper on the US site (only) :-).
A couple of years ago, I spoke to IBM people about
this,
essentially they are bound by some sort of contract (which
may or may not be illegal) with MS to sell only with MS
licenses (ok, that was before the Lenovo deal).
They were bound as well as lenovo is (2bn $ contract).
But things have changed, Linux has evolved a lot and gained an enormous amount
of acceptance. So I at least try to get one without m$ license :-).
You might try to get a refund from MS, but that may
be
hard and tedious.
If I can't get a laptop without the license I will sure try that.
The other variant is to go the very hard but
principled
way, i.e. as Brent did: sue them for illegal bundling (they
don't even detail how much the OS costs in the package).
Apparently (researched that some) forcing a customer to buy something that you
bundle with your product but is none of your products is illegal here in the
EU (that is how I understood it).
So even if I would win such a case, I don't have the ressources to start
one :-/.
- accept to buy different hardware (option: tell
IBM/Lenovo
why they lost a sale) Some vendors sell without OS at all,
some do even provide some distribution of Linux.
Would be hard because I kinda fell in love with those thinkpads :-D.
Great quality, very nice up to date features, not too bad linux support...
I don't really think they care that much about loosing 1 customer
- raise enough of a stink with IBM/Lenovo or one of
their
resellers, maybe they'll accept providing you with an
"unbundled" Thinkpad. Don't count on it being any cheaper
though.
Before actually buying one, I will for sure do anything possible to get an
unbundled one.
Thanks :-)
--
regards,
Georges Toth
4 Jun
4 Jun
9:34 a.m.
On Wed, May 31, 2006 at 05:11:50PM +0200, Georges Toth wrote:
[Lenovo Thinkpad with Linux?]
If today's Slashdot article is to be believed, you may forget
getting Lenovo hardware without paying the MS tax:
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/06/04/0415221
Eric
1:05 p.m.
If today's Slashdot article is to be believed,
you may forget
getting Lenovo hardware without paying the MS tax:
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/06/04/0415221
If it is illegal in Europe...a "great deal" with m$ can't change the laws.
It just takes someone to challenge them :-) ... btw I'm wondering why the EU
complains about m$ bundling media-player and ie and the smb case etc; but
they don't care that m$ pays some real money and "forces" distributors to
bundle windows with their pc's.
hmmmmm
--
regards,
Georges Toth
6 Jun
6 Jun
9:55 a.m.
Hi,
On Sun, Jun 04, 2006 at 03:05:36PM +0200, Georges Toth wrote:
Since when did laws interest Mr. Gates?
If
today's Slashdot article is to be believed, you may forget
getting Lenovo hardware without paying the MS tax:
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/06/04/0415221
If it is illegal in Europe...a "great deal" with m$ can't change
the laws. It just takes someone to challenge them :-)
Go ahead if you like... ;-)
... btw I'm wondering
why the EU complains about m$ bundling media-player and ie and
the smb case etc; but they don't care that m$ pays some real
money and "forces" distributors to bundle windows with their
pc's.
cf. Brent.
Why I'm writing anyway:
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/73885
Sounds like Lenovo will provide Linux if asked. I'd
doubt though that they'd go through the trouble for a
single system. But, with this option, it should be
possible to get a machine without preinstall, just step
hard enough on their toes ;-)
Greetings, Eric
10:05 a.m.
Hi,
Why I'm writing anyway:
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/73885
Sounds like Lenovo will provide Linux if asked. I'd
doubt though that they'd go through the trouble for a
single system. But, with this option, it should be
possible to get a machine without preinstall, just step
hard enough on their toes ;-)
That sounds great!
Thanks for the link :-).
I heard before that they offer fully customized systems (also without m$) but
only in larger quantities (50+).
In the article it sounds like they would offer single systems too though....
Btw... no answer yet from Lenovo.
I'll write them again, and give 'em a phone call as soon as I have more time.
--
regards,
Georges Toth
5 Jun
5 Jun
9:25 p.m.
Georges Toth a écrit :
No ways. If you pay M$t, you will certainly _never_ see your money back.
Don't accept to pay them.
See http://BFrere.net/VCF for details. Use consumer's associations,
"Guichet européen du consommateur", ...
You might try
to get a refund from MS, but that may be
hard and tedious.
If I can't get a laptop without the license I will sure try that.
The other
variant is to go the very hard but principled
way, i.e. as Brent did: sue them for illegal bundling (they
don't even detail how much the OS costs in the package).
Apparently (researched that some) forcing a customer to buy something that you
bundle with your product but is none of your products is illegal here in the
EU (that is how I understood it).
So even if I would win such a case, I don't have
the ressources to start
one :-/.
Costs just few stamps and some time.
--
Brent Frère
Private e-mail: Brent(a)BFrere.net
Postal address: 58, rue d'Esch
L-3720 Rumelange
Grand-Duchy of Luxembourg
European Union
Mobile: +352-021/29.05.98
Fax: +352-26.30.05.96
Home: +352-307.341
URL: http://BFrere.net
If you have problem with my digital signature, please install the appropriate authority
certificate by browsing https://www.cacert.org/certs/root.crt.
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7 comments
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participants (3)
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Brent Frère -
Eric Dondelinger -
Georges Toth